St. Joseph’s Church, Mira Road: DEBATE RAGES ON……

SILENT VOICE, would like to give maximum exposure to readers views, opinion and voice. We therefore, have decided to post the comments as main post, while we think that readers should be able to participate in the debate.

Meanwhile , please be informed that at the bottom of each post on the left hand side, you will find the numbers of comments received on that particular post. Please click on the link to read comments.

GREG

https://silentmaj.wordpress.com/2013/10/27/is-this-mission-sunday-in-real-sense-at-st-josephs-church-mira-road-readers-comments/

1)      The Iniquitous: Church Crimes said,

October 27, 2013 at 5:02 pm · Edit

Reblogged this on The Iniquitous: Church Crimes.

2)      God’s Beloved (@nameeta2010) said,

October 27, 2013 at 7:06 pm · Edit

Response to Tulip D’Souza’s comment :

— why are the ‘same’ people involved in ‘several ‘ associations ? The parish is one of the biggest in Asia [ 25000+ ]…..why are majority inactive and not involved or not encouraged or not allowed to be involved even if they are trained /skilled in various aspects of pastoral ministry before moving from Bombay to Mira Rd ? Do the OCD clergy not like to collaborate with the laity in serving the church and the world ? Or has a ghetto of their like-minded persons formed to rule over the parish ? Their Provincial had once apologized in the church for their lack of collaboration with laity….but there is no change.The clergy want to hold on to Power.

— many people have told me that the focus of the clergy is on getting more money. There are complaints of not receiving receipts for small sum cash -donations towards infrastructure.

—if the parish is helping ‘other’ parishes by funding their building projects , it means there are lot of funds available for Good Quality /Legal construction . Still the clergy are involved in illegal , poor quality construction which is later regularized. Isn’t this dangerous in what was previously a Salt-land ? This means either the clergy are Greedy for money….which perhaps is diverted towards formation / maintenance of their OCD religious order and members of their religious community……….or parishioners have lost their trust in the parish clergy and do not like to donate towards St.Joseph’s church infrastructure. They have ‘more trust in other parishes’ of the Archdiocese of Bombay- for whose buildings they are generous in making donations.

—the parish clergy give preference and special treatment to politicians, rich donors , builders from whom they receive special favors for the parish and their religious order. The felicitation of the powerful must be well video-recorded during various parish functions.

—on one occasion when a parishioner questioned a Carmelite priest why they were supporting a corrupt builder who gave large sum donations to the parish ……but went against a victim who was cheated by that builder , the parishioner was introduced to the builder on the speaker phone and told that he ‘ speaks so courteously, politely and with respect for the priests and is so generous with donations ‘ so it is impossible that he would be corrupt or cheat anyone.

if the Carmelite priests judge the professional expertise of builders etc. according to their generosity / smooth and sweet talk [ wrongly interpreted as fruit of the Holy Spirit ] …then something is terribly wrong. They must be too naive regarding what is going on in this world where majority of the laity live. Corrupt builders cheat people in lakhs and donate a few thousands to wash their guilt and gain confidence of people.

regarding the poor or those who are suffering…….like any parish there certainly will be a group of beneficiaries served by the associations…..but i have known many people ‘crying’ for humane help but have been totally ignored. The clergy have asked lay leaders to refrain from getting involved and said , ” The Lord will take care ” we can only pray !

As far as I can see , for several of the OCD clergy , their God is not our Lord Jesus Christ …..but their god is Money ……MONEY AND THEIR RELIGIOUS ORDER ARE THEIR GOD!!!!!!!!!!! this is Idolatry.

3)      Fergus Misquitta said,

October 27, 2013 at 8:16 pm · Edit

From what is written, it seems that the parish council consists of stooges of the priests in power. The crux of the whole issue, in most cases, is usually the making of some clandestine money by those that control.

If someone is really interested in blowing the lid off this alleged quagmire of wrongdoings, it is time some investigation is done as to the personal financial state of those in power; bank accounts, cars, flats, well-being/finances of close relatives and other worldly trappings should be looked into.

It usually that the diocesan/secular clergy, (who do not take the vow of poverty), who are up to these sort of money shennanigans; the religious orders are supposed to have the vow of poverty to prevent them from raking in the lucre, so this may be a first; but then there is always someone/somewhere to begin the rot.

Best of luck you crusaders; putting the clergy in the dock is not an easy task; they are not so stupid as to be caught with the hand in the cookie jar.

4)      Patrick Alvares said,

October 30, 2013 at 2:14 pm · Edit

I am also a Mira Road parishioner and also was an animator for about 3 yrs and a Civic Cell member. We were there to redress various issues of the parishioners. When the dumping ground issue rose, I along with two of my colleagues, out of the so-called “25-35 thousand” parishioners participated in the agitation. Neither of the priest of St Joseph Church participated in any meetings or neither they directed the parishioners. The whole of Diocese of mira bhayander comprising of about 9 churches priests were against, on the behavioral part of our parish. thanks to bishop Bosco Penha. even today the cases against the illiterate, poor Christians linger in courts and even in police stations. when this parish priest came, he is only interested in making money and dividing people. there is more to come as per Robert’s letter. He has gone to the vicar level and since they are not interested in finding a solution, i hope the office of the Pope will intervene. thanks and god bless you all . Robert you are not alone. we are with you

5)      Robert Raymond said,

October 31, 2013 at 11:34 am · Edit

Thank you Patrick for your comments. This is not an individual raising an issue. There are many of us. Some using the SILENT VOICE and some other means to express their frustration and pain.

Our endeavor is to sensitize our parishioners that they should not look upon themselves as individuals and feel powerless. Our goal is to bring about changes in the parish as all God’s Beloved have expressed from far and near. That includes Tulip too who may have a different take on this subject. Nonetheless Merlyn D’Sa , Municipal Corporator has sought clarifications so that our intentions become more clear. Nobody is against anybody. The priests of our parish have let us down and have caused grave harm to the unity of our parish. Most of them being new here do not know each other so there is some initial resistance which in due course will be sorted out. It is this process which has been disrupted by the divisive actions on the part of the parish priest for monetary gains and this will take a long time to heal. Through this medium we can hasten the process of healing and oneness. I/We are confident that the hierarchy will take corrective actions and fix accountability. Let us pray and let us blog.

Some aberrations and revelations of these priests here in our parish:

How money plays part in our parish where some individual whose sole contribution is, that they are benefactors….(donors)

It was during 6.30 am mass after the Communion some time back. A estate agent was called on the altar and felicitated with bouquet of flowers and the congregation was made to sing ‘there shall be showers of blessing’ cause it was his birthday. How bizarre it can get and I felt like the parish priest treating me/us like fools. I felt humiliated.. I just couldn’t believe the preparations done for this ‘tamasha’; arranging bouquet so early in the morning….vow!

Biryani was distributed last year after the St Anthony Feast Mass sponsored by the PRO ( a designation unique to our parish) and some benefactor. Their names were announced 4 times during the Eucharist. What a horrible sight at the main entrance of the church where parishioners were falling over each other for the biryani packet with the Parish Priest in attendance. This is was unique way to promote PRO who stood for Municipal elections and the PP has the temerity to say that he never canvassed for any candidate.

There are so many more but I haven’t got a nod from those who have shared with me and us their disgust at the way the Eucharist is being used with the congregation as captive audience being made to dance according to the tune of the celebrant.

I won’t be surprised if you find some unpleasant experiences shared in this post. Previous comments already reveal the decay.

Then there are commercial announcements like opening of a showroom and invitation thrown along with it……What is happening here? How come we can be silent spectators?

I am sure if given an alternative place for worship many many would refrain from coming to the church where it is now. This thought/expression itself is heartbreaking for this is not what we and others envisioned when we settled here and built the church where once stood a shed.

6)      Patrick Alvares said,

November 1, 2013 at 3:04 pm · Edit

Dear Robert, as per your reply to brother Alex on 21/10/13 I’d like to place some of my opinions on some your issues issued below.

1. Illegal and unauthorized construction has been regularized

Answer: Will the same church regularize abortion which has been banned in our catholic church.

2. Of two, I’d like to say that let him decorate his own house but not build and construct buildings without necessary paperwork and permissions.

3. The so-called “PPC office bearers” are mere selected ones and not elected ones.

4. you had been forced to pay but we are forced to pay for zonal mass and also there were times when the community get-togethers were cancelled due to the last minute commercial bookings.

5. Instead of having a direct meeting with the people who were hurt, the PP dared that they are inactive members.

6. No politician for whatsoever party he represents, was officially called during the tenure of until previous PP’s.

7. Sir this is a daily attitude on the part of PP and the PPC members.

8. As far your question is concerned, it is unauthorized and has to come down as per the Mira-Bhayandar Municipal Corporation notices. The copy of this letter can be posted or hand delivered to you and any other parishioner or the concerned authorities.

9. These are already questionable.Again i ask that abortion may be legalized in this church which is banned in the Catholic Church. The money that was used to construct this were from politicians and our brothers and sisters.

10. This is not the only instance but there are many other times when death occurs. In this church vicinity, none of the priests are available,even if they are present in the church. For this i can count not once not twice but three times more

These are answers for the questions which were posted on this blog. But there are many more to come. As far as we are christians we will not be divided but united in Christ .

Have a good day. God bless you all.!!

7)      Steven Gilbert said,

November 4, 2013 at 8:49 pm · Edit

There was once an earnest gardener who loved his work and his produce. One day he was walking through his delightful garden and happened to notice a weed. The gardener was particularly tired so he decided to leave it.

The next day he had to leave to visit his relatives in another country for two weeks. When he came back, the back yard was covered in weeds and all his produce was dead!

REFLECTION

Likewise, if we allow just one bad thought in our head and fail to remove it, it will sprout and instead of having to pick one weed, we will have too much to control.

If we destroy our negative thoughts, by allowing positive ones to grow, they will display in our personality like a beautiful garden.

Thats the power of positive thought. We are, what our thoughts are.

We should always entertain only good and positive thoughts in our mind and never give way for anything negative!

Be alert and conscious of your thoughts and pick out the weeds of your negative thoughts consciously and quickly, at the right moment.

hope our thoughts reflect in the right way

Stephen

8)      orsonmike said,

November 5, 2013 at 2:54 am · Edit

Steven Gilbert, positive and negative thoughts are never to be imposed upon another as your views seem to subjective rather than being objective. Step outside of your self-righteous coccoon.

To learn what a TRULY OBJECTIVE way of writing refer – to Patrick Alvares and Robert Raymond’s comments above which are rooted in FACT and TRUTH.

The priests have converted the altar where the Eucharist is raised into a billboard or railway platform where all sorts of BEGGARS are entertained be it vote-seeking politicians or limelight seeking showmen or WORSE money seeking power-hungry religious persons!

To add to his list the teachings of the Roman Church CONTRADICT the Holy Bible (now secretly renamed Universal Church to give backdoor entry to homosexuals, Muslims who are anti-Christ & Marian; as also Hindus idolators who are regularly greeted on their Ganpati and other festivals by the local Archdiocese and on Diwali this time by the Pope ) – Sample these below:-

a)The Pope is infallible – when in reality he is NOT as he is a mere mortal creation of an infallible God.

b) Mary a creature of God – is claimed to be co-redemptrix (decided by a deluded pope, drunk on power in this century) when the facts in the Holy Bible cleary state Jesus to be the SOLE intercessor between earth and Heaven as our REDEEMER through His Supreme sacrifice on the Cross and His resurrection!

Are you suggesting that the clergy is above the law or even religious/ ethical. The illegal constructions listed out are CRIMINAL acts and to defer demoltion and/or stay out of jail obviously the clergy has paid bribes to “regularise” these SHAMEFUL deeds to an equally corrupt active holligan masquerading a local politician who is a total failure when it comes to simple things as tarring the roads!

Incidentally NONE of the buildings on the Church campus today serve any ALTRUISTIC needs of the community but are COMMERCIAL enterprises to the core – even though a Church by law is a “charitable institution” – go figure.

Let us recall the HUGE sums WASTED in building the useless ARCHWAY at inflated costs across the street near the north-eastern exit of the Church a few years ago by a myopic Rudolf who got shunted out on “promotion”. Surely the monies could have been put to better use of the needy in the parish.

I’m sure that Tulip Agatha Jacquline DSouza who commented above FALSELY claiming to be conversant with the financial affairs of the parish would otherwise SHUT UP in light of such scandalous actions by the priests – or did they FAIL to report these events and misuse of funds to either of you Steven?

Are you Steven Gilbert/ Tulip Agatha Jacquline DSouza righteous – did you have a FULL “white” clean deal when you bought your house or did you evade taxes by undervaluing it? Easy to preach righteousness but never easy to stay on the NARROW path of justice and honesty…..Stop preaching and start practising.

BOTH of you white-washers and sycophants (CHAMCHAS) need to get your FACTS right before DARING to waste our time here – this forum ACTIVELY seeks to clean the AGEAN stables of the Church stinking to the skies……… We strive to emulate Jesus who WHIPPED the money changers in the Temple for converting it into a marketplace – ditto for the priests commercializing God’s house of prayer.

9)      Adrian John Menezes said,

November 6, 2013 at 5:35 pm · Edit

Bro, Mike unless the laity wakes up from the deep sleep that this so called religious of the church has put us into, none will be able to clean this AGEAN stables of the church deep rooted into corruption.St. Joseph Church Mira Road is one of the markets of making money every sunday the parishioners are made to slog to make goodies and sell for feeding the priests with the best of food and drinks, which even a common man who is toiling day and night to make ends meet cannot afford to.

10)   Steven Gilbert said,

November 6, 2013 at 5:58 pm · Edit

Orsonmike it makes me sad to see your agony against the Priest but i feel it is seldom little you or i can possibly do

what do you feel we as lay people can do other than blog one another

so you really feel a change can happen if yes kindly show us the path

i feel many have tried but were shunted out. I feel you were also one of those who has who has got on the wrong side of the priest

https://silentmaj.wordpress.com/2013/10/20/is-this-mission-sunday-in-real-sense-at-st-josephs-church-mira-road/#comments

Additional comments on Ist article on the issue

  1. October 30, 2013 at 7:30 pm · Edit

    we cannot get some post Mr. Greg could you please look into it
    there was apost from Patrick alvares and also from Nameeta

    • Silent Voice said,

      October 30, 2013 at 9:05 pm 

      Nothing is pending for moderation….Ask them to repost..

  2. October 31, 2013 at 12:33 am

    There are two Posts regarding this issue on Silent voice. One is the the above Main article written by Robert , the other is the Comments . The title of both posts is the same , hence the confusion.

    Please read this link for the comments that have been re-posted by Greg as a separate article for greater viewership.

    https://silentmaj.wordpress.com/2013/10/27/is-this-mission-sunday-in-real-sense-at-st-josephs-church-mira-road-readers-comments/

    Greg, requesting you to please change the settings on this blog so that all comments after each post are visible in one page. It is rather confusing to click “Older comments” and “Newer comments”……..

  3. November 1, 2013 at 8:10 pm · Edit

    as said by merlyn on her second term as a corporator i would like to add here the church led by the pp fielded an opponent also a parishnier against merlyn and that too along with almost 45 or more associations of the parish along with the door to door campaining by none other the parish priest.

    4. Adrian John Menezes said,

    1. October 29, 2013 at 2:10 pm · 

      My dear parishioners lets come out and stand in unity and bring clarity to all the above issues, united we stand divided these priest will take us all on a very long drive

      5. Merlyn M D’sa said October 29, 2013 at 10:08 pm ·

    2. Hi Tulip Agatha Jacqueline D’souza,

      Seems like you are new to the parish. Not so long ago I and other parishioners had gone to other parishes in the Archdiocese seeking help to build our church. Even Robert was part of it. In fact some others contributed from overseas too. This comment demeans those who come here as though we are doing a big favor to them; also I don’t know in what context this finds mention in your comment. We are a family and it is such a wonderful thing if a church comes up with a little help from our brothers and sisters from other parishes. We must encourage this.
      Tulip dear, can you please clarify how did you construe, the article as ‘sour grapes and vested interest of political party’ and in what way is the ‘faith being politicized?’ May be some illumination on this can help the readers too and me too
      .
      Merlyn D’Sa, Parishioner of St Joseph Church Mira rd since 1991. A few of my designations I held in my parish. First SCC Parish Coordinator, First Chairperson of the Bombay Catholic Sabha, Mira rd unit, First President of the Civic and Political cell, Catechism teacher for 14 years, Choir member for 12 years, One of the first Commissioned Lectors (even today), First Parish Coordinator of the Women’s Cell and now the Deanery Coordinator since 2004, PPC member for 3 terms, Core member of Mira Fest for collecting funds to build our new church, Member of the parish team collecting funds from various parishes in the diocese, Core member of Jhintak ’98, Core member of the Church and Anubhav Inauguration Team, Member of the Widow’s cell……….
      ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE – SECOND TERM AS MUNICIPAL CORPORATOR OF WARD 35 OF MIRA BHAYANDER MUNICIPAL CORPORATION AND PRINCIPAL OF RAVAL INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL AND JUNIOR COLLEGE OF COMMERCE AND SCIENCE…..

    3. October 30, 2013 at 5:25 pm 

      Madam Corporator,
      Your sermon is so short, but ur announcements r too long,u even forgot to mention in the announcement that u were the first to hold the Inter Religious Dialogue as a innaugral ceremony for Anubhav

       

       

 

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12 Comments

  1. November 20, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    Saturday of the Thirty-second Week in Ordinary Time
    Lectionary: 496

    Reading 1 Wis 18:14-16; 19:6-9

    When peaceful stillness compassed everything
    and the night in its swift course was half spent,
    ***Your all-powerful word, from heaven’s royal throne
    bounded, a fierce warrior, into the doomed land,***
    bearing the sharp sword of your inexorable decree.
    And as he alighted, he filled every place with death;
    he still reached to heaven, while he stood upon the earth.

    For all creation, in its several kinds, was being made over anew,
    serving its natural laws,
    ***that your children might be preserved unharmed.***
    The cloud overshadowed their camp;
    and out of what had before been water, dry land was seen emerging:
    Out of the Red Sea an unimpeded road,
    and a grassy plain out of the mighty flood.
    Over this crossed the whole nation sheltered by your hand,
    after they beheld stupendous wonders.
    For they ranged about like horses,
    and bounded about like lambs,
    praising you, O Lord! their deliverer.

    —————————————————————————-
    God a ‘relentless warrior’ for our salvation, says Pope Francis

    Nov. 16, 2013

    Preaching his homily during Mass at the chapel of Santa Marta in the Vatican, the Pope stressed God’s unwavering dedication to redeeming mankind. “When the Lord takes up the defense of his people it is like this: he is a relentless warrior and saves his people,” Pope Francis said Nov. 16. God “saves (and) renews everything: ‘All creation was made anew in its nature as before.’ ‘The Red Sea became a road without obstacles,’” the Roman Pontiff preached, recounting the first reading, from the book of Wisdom. Our salvation comes when God hears “the prayer of his people, because he has heard in his heart that his chosen ones suffer,” he explained.

    The Pope then turned to the Gospel story in which a poor widow persistently begs an unjust judge to render a verdict on her behalf. This widow’s perseverance reveals the true strength of humanity: that of prayer. “And what is the power of men? What is the power of mankind? That of the widow: to knock at the heart of God, knocking, asking, lamenting many problems, many sorrows, and asking the Lord for freedom from these sorrows, from these sins, from these problems.” God has the power to save man, but “the power of man is prayer.” Most especially, “the prayer of the humble man is the weakness of God,” he emphasized. “God is weak only in this: he is weak in respect to the prayers of his people … the culmination of the power of God, the salvation of God” is in “the Incarnation of the Word.”

    The Lord “does and will do justice to his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night,” added the Pope. The persistent widow in the Gospel “was brave” and never tired in her pleas, he said.“You are like the widow: pray, ask, knock at the heart of God, every day.”“Always remember that God is powerful. He is capable of making all things new, but he also has a weakness: our prayer.”Pope Francis concluded by thanking the priests of St. Peter’s Basilica who were present at the Mass, reminding them of the power of their intercession in “praying to the Lord for the many needs of the Church, of humanity, of all.”“Thank you for this works…and continues on for the good of the Church.”

    Source: Catholic News Agency

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  2. December 12, 2013 at 7:55 am

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